Vzpostavitev posvojitev s Kitajske?
Dragi čakajoči starši,
želela bi Vas opogumiti, da začnete raziskovati možnost posvojitve s Kitajske, kjer je v sirotišnicah na stotisoče zapuščenih deklic, večinoma kmalu po rojstvu. V ZDA in EU jih posvojijo več tisoč na leto (samo ZDA okrog 6000). Sama sem posvojila preko ZDA (mož je državljan). Postopek je dolgotrajen (v najinem primeru 2 leti), a točno določen in zelo urejen.
Verjetno pa bi bilo potrebno najprej pritisniti na go. Vlasto Rozman, da naveže stik z China Center of Adoption Affairs v Pekingu (vtipkajte v Google), centralnem uradu, kjer ‘povežejo’ dosje staršev z dosjejejem otroka. Slovenija bi morala s Kitajsko skleniti bilateralni sporazum in točno določiti postopek. Pogoje za posvojitev si lahko preberete na spletni strani tega Centra. Seveda so s postopkom povezani tudi relativno veliki stroški, ne nazadnje tudi potovanje (otroka morate sami iskat).
Če je med vami kdo, ki ima voljo, da bi začel pritiskati na go. Rozman ali se kar sam pozanimati na CCAA, se lahko obrne tudi name za kak nasvet. Jaz sem imela pri ‘legalizaciji’ otroka v Sloveniji precejšnje težave, a sem le uspela. Če pa bi bil postopek točno določen in utečen, bi bilo bistveno lažje.
Imeti bi bilo treba zelo močno voljo in željo, a ovire niso nepremagljive. Ko sva z možem dobila hčerko, me je mož že prvo jutro vprašal. kdaj bova šla še po eno. Najina hčerka je fenomenalna. Človeku se srce trga, ko pomisli koliko takih čudovitih otrok hira po kitajskih sirotišnicah. Sama nima več moči, saj sem bila, ko sva dobila hčerko, v 6 mesecu nosečnosti in sem čez 4 mesece rodila še eno hčerko. Obe sta čudoviti in v veliko veselje, zdaj stari 3 leta in leto in pol.
Sama si močno želim, da bi Slovenija vzpostavila program posvojitev s Kitajsko, ne nazadnje iz sebične želje, da moja hčerka v Sloveniji ne bi bila edina posvojena s Kitajske. Sama imam polne roke dela s punčkama, vem pa, da je ni ovire, ki je starši, ki želijo posvojiti, ne bi mogli premagati. Vsekakor bom z veseljem pomagala z nasveti, če je kdo zainteresriran
Lep pozdrav vsem!
Draga mamica dveh punčk, veseli me, da so na svetu ljudje, ki jim ni mar, kakšne “barve” je otrok in upam, da se bo na vas obrnil vsaj kakšen par. Veseli me tudi, da ste pripravljeni pomagati. Tudi midva sva posvojila punčko staro 6 mesecev in danes ima 3 leta. Otrok takoj, ko ga vzameš v roke, postane TVOJ. Najbolj me razjezi, ko mi vsak reče, da “zdaj boste imeli pa sigurno še enega svojega”. Kajti ti ljudje niso sposobni razmišljati bolj široko! Za nas, posvojitelje, je posvojeni otrok NAŠ, ne glede na izvor in poreklo. Veliko sreče vam in vsem bodočim staršem!
pozdravljeni,
lepo je, če posvojiteljem ni mar za barvo posvojencev. Sama pa se bolj nagibam k temu, da bi tak sporazum vspostavili z Rusijo ali / in Ukrajino. Tudi tam je veliko zapuščenih otrok, ki čakajo na posvojitev in ti dve deželi sta mi nekako bližje.
Zelim veliko lepih trenutkov s hčerkama!!!
Vsekakor pozdravljam tudi iniciativo vzpostavitve bilaterale z Rusijo, Ukrajino, Romunijo in drugimi evropskimi deželami. Tudi sama sem raziskovala možnosti posvojitve iz (in mnogih drugih, npr. južna Amerika) teh dežel.
V vsakem primeru boste morali bodoči starši v akcijo, saj so možnosti posvojitve v tujini, kot vse kaže, trenutno zelo majhne oziroma neobstoječe. Brez močnih in stalnih pritiskov na ministrstvo in CSD-je ne bo šlo.
Zakaj se nisem odločila za posvojitev iz Rusije ali Romunije?
1. Stroški posvojitve, ki so bili že tako veliki, so bili 2x večji.
2. Postopki so manj urejeni in predvidljivi, večja možnost korupcije.
3. Večja možnost zdravstvenih težav (tuberkuloza, AIDS), otroci so večinoma starejši in imajo za sabo že marsikaj. Razmere v sirotišnicah so lahko zelo slabe.
4. Tega se ne spomnim več dobro, a verjetno zaradi starosti ne bi mogla posvojiti otroka mlajšega od 12 mesecev (vsaka država ima glede tega svoja pravila).
Zakaj posvojitev s Kitajske:
1. Urejen in predvidljiv postopek posvojitve, ki si na vrsti, si na vrsti (Trenutno je čakalna doba od takrat, ko prejmejo v Pekingu dosje staršev do takrat, ko prejmejo starši podatke in otroku in sliko, 8 mesecev. Ko sva čakala midva, je bila 14 mesecev.).
2. Lahko sva zaprosila za zdravega otroka mlajšega od 12 mesecev (Če se ne motim, do 45 let. Nad 45 let stari lahko posvojijo otroka starega do 24 mesecev. Posvojijo lahko tudi samski.).
4. Otroci (99% punčke) so večinoma zelo zdravi, malo je verjetnosti, da bi njihove biološke matere zlorabljale alkohol ali mamila, verjetnost AIDSA je še dokaj majhna. Kljub revščini je tudi majhna možnost hude podhranjenosti. med nosečnostjo ali po njej.
3. Že prej sem potovala po Kitajski, tam tudi strokovno delujem in sodelujem, všeč mi je dežela in njeni ljudje, tja se želim vračati in občasno tudi po par mesecev gostovati. Spoštujem in poskušam do neke mere spoznavati in gojiti kulturo rodne dežele moje hčerke.
Mamica dveh punčk,
mogoče hodi tvoja punčka v nek ljubljanski vrtec? Če je to tvoja, ti povem, da se je moja kolegica čisto zaljubila v punčko posvojeno Kitajčico. Ko smo se dobile je ves čas samo o njej govorila in, da bi ona tudi takoj takšno imela.
Če bi mene sedaj kdo vprašal, pa, da imam možnost, bi takoj posvojila takšno punčko. Problem je moj fant, ki v posvojitvi ne vidi nobene prednosti. Upam, da boš še večkrat na forumu, ker jaz pa bi se čez čas kar odločila za takšno punčko. Samo tole z mojim partnerjem je dolgotrajno. Če boš tako prijazna, te bom prosila za nasvet in kako se to izvede.
LP Neja
Jaz sem šele danes prebrala tvoj post….mi je zdravje malo zatajilo 🙁
Jaz oziroma midva čakava iz enega samega razloga…to je poroka. Moj dragi je še v ločitvenem postopku ki pa v Italiji traja precej dolgo(nekje pet let od začetka).
Za posvojitev sem se praktično že odločila.Zgoraj si napisala da na kitajskem lahko posvojijo tudi samski…v sloveniji kolikor mi je znano ne…ali to pomeni da bi lahko začela s postopkom že sedaj? Ali če začnem prezgodaj bom dobila negativen odgovor in bila takorekoč zapečatena za vedno?
Se ti že vnaprej zahvaljujem za odgovor in mogoče tudi pomoč kasneje!
Draga Neja,
seveda je moja puncka v vrtcu, gotovo je edina v Sloveniji.
Vskakor morata biti oba partnerja za posvojitev, tako da bos morala na partnerja kar pocakati. Ko bo zelja dozorela, pa caka tiste, ki se bodo za to odlocili, veliko bojev s slovenskimi birokratskimi zmaji.
Morda bo pomagalo to, da je otrok popolnoma tvoj ne glede na to kako ga dobis, prav nobene razlike ni.
Objavi kaksen mail, ce bos zelela kaj bolj podrobnega dobiti zasebno (ce zelis ostati anonimna, si omisli kak hotmail ali yahoo email).
Lep pozdrav!
Draga Kitty,
na zalost bo verjetno potrebno zadostiti zakonom obeh drzav. Tudi ce in ko bo postopek s Kitajske formaliziran, bodo se vedno Centri za socialno delo tisti, ki bodo morali pripraviti ‘home study’, torej porocilo o primernosti za posvojitev (ki zajema porocilo o statusu, izobrazbi, sluzbi, zdravju, bivalnih razmerah, odnosu do starsev, odnosu do vzgoje otrok, preverbo nekaznovanja, itd.), ki bo verjetno moralo biti v skladu tudi s slovenskimi zakoni. Tudi ce bodo tako porocilo pripravljeni napisati, bodo verjetno na koncu posvojitev odsvetovali.
Na spletni strani Chinese Center for Adoption Affairs
http://www.china-ccaa.org
je mogoce najti veliko informacij v zvezi s posvojitvijo na Kitajskem.
Lep pozdrav!
živjo!!
zelo sem presenečena, da je še en s takšnimi željami, kot jih imam jaz.
ko sem prebrala tvoj mail sem šla takoj pogledati to spletno stran, a na žalost se mi ni odprla, tako da bi te prosila, če bi mi lahko sama napisala kaj več pogojov za posvojite ter kakšen praktičen nasvet glede problemov, ki naj bi se pojavljali pri tem. najlepša hvala za odgovor, ajda
Pozdravljena,
kot vse kaze, je trenutno nekaj narobe z http://www.china-ccaa.org, morda kaj preurejajo strani.
Več drugič!
Tole je z
http://www.china-ccaa.org/flfg/0112wgsy-english.htm
Measures for Registration of Adoption of Children by Foreigners in the People’s Republic of China
Article 1 These Measures are formulated in accordance with the Adoption Law of the People’s Republic of China for the purpose of regulating foreign-related adoption registration practice.
Article 2 The adoption of children within the territory of the People’s Republic of China by foreigners (hereinafter referred to as adoption of children in China by foreigners) shall be registered in accordance with these Measures.
Where one party of a couple as adopter is a foreigner, the adoption of a child in China by them shall also be registered in accordance with these Measures.
Article 3 The adoption of children in China by foreigners shall comply with the provisions of the relevant Chinese laws on adoption, as well as the provisions of the relevant laws on adoption of the countries where adopters reside; problems arising from discrepancy between the provisions of the laws of the countries where adopters reside and those of the Chinese laws shall be resolved through consultation by relevant departments of the governments of the two countries.
Article 4 A foreigner who is to adopt a child in China shall, through the government of the country where he or she resides or an adoption organization delegated by the government of the said country (hereafter referred to as the foreign adoption organization), convey an application for adoption and submit the adopter’s family situation report and a certificate to an adoption organization delegated by the Chinese government (hereinafter referred to as the Chinese adoption organization).
The adopter’s application for adoption, the family situation report and the certificate stipulated in the preceding paragraph refer to the following documents that are issued by the competent agencies of the country where the adopter resides and, authenticated by a diplomatic department of the country where the adopter resides or by an agency authorized by the said diplomatic department, and authenticated by the embassy or consulate of the People’s Republic of China stationed in that country.
(1) an application for inter-country adoption;
(2) a birth certificate;
(3) a certificate of marital status;
(4) a certificate of profession, income and of property condition;
(5) a certificate of health examination;
(6) a certificate indicating whether the adopter has ever been subjected to criminal punishment;
(7) a certificate certifying the approval of the inter-country adoption by the competent authority of the country where the adopter resides;
(8) a family situation report, including the status of the adopter, the qualification and appropriateness of the adoption, family background, medical history, adoption motive and features suitable for taking care of children.
Foreigners who have continuously lived in China for more than one year for work or study and are to adopt children in China shall submit the documents stipulated in the preceding paragraph except for the certificate of health examination, and shall also submit certificates indicating such particulars of the adopter as marital status, profession, income or property condition and whether they have ever been subjected to criminal punishment, which are issued by the Chinese units to which they belong, and certificates of health examination issued by medical units at or above the county level.
Article 5 The person placing out a child for adoption shall submit to the civil affairs department of the people’s government of a province, an autonomous region or a municipality directly under the Central Government his or her residence booklet, resident identity card (where a social welfare institution places out a child for adoption, then the identity credential of the person in charge of such an institution shall be submitted), and residence certificate of the adoptee, etc., and shall submit the following certifying papers according to different situations:
(1) Where the biological parents (including divorced ones) are the persons who place out the adoptee for adoption, a certificate certifying that the biological parents cannot rear the adoptee due to unusual difficulties and a written consent of both of the biological parents on the placing out for adoption shall be submitted; among those, where the adoptee is placed out for adoption by a single parent because the spouse of the biological father or mother has died or has been missing, a certificate certifying that the other spouse has died or has been missing as well as a written declaration of the parents of the dead spouse or the spouse who has been missing on giving up the priority in rearing the child shall also be submitted;
(2) Where a guardian is the person who places out the adoptee for adoption because the adoptee’s parents have no full civil capacity, a certificate certifying that the adoptee’s parents have no full civil capacity and may do serious harm to the adoptee and a certificate certifying that the guardian has the right of guardianship shall be submitted;
(3) Where a guardian is the person who places out the adoptee for adoption because both of the adoptee’s parents have died, a certificate certifying the death of the adoptee’s biological parents, a certificate certifying the guardian’s actual bearing of obligations of guardianship as well as a written consent of other persons bearing rearing obligations on the placing out for adoption shall be submitted;
(4) Where a social welfare institution acts as the person who places out a child for adoption, a certificate of the situations in the abandonment and discovery of the abandoned infant or child, and a certificate of the process of the search of his or her parents or other guardians shall be submitted; where the adoptee is an orphan, a certificate certifying the death or the declaration of death of the orphan’s parents as well as a written consent of other persons bearing the obligations of rearing the orphan on the placing out for adoption shall be submitted.
Where a disabled child is placed out for adoption, a certificate of disability of the child issued by a medical unit at or above the county level shall also be submitted.
Article 6 The civil affairs department of the people’s government of a province, an autonomous region or a municipality directly under the Central Government shall examine the credentials and certifying papers submitted by those who place out children for adoption, and issue public notices to ascertain or look for the biological parents for those abandoned infants or children whose biological parents cannot be ascertained or found; where the adoptee and those who place out children for adoption are believed to meet the requirements stipulated in the Adoption Law, a list of their names shall be notified to the Chinese adoption organization, and the following credentials and certifying papers shall be conveyed simultaneously:
(1) duplicate copies of residence booklets and resident identity cards of those who place out children for adoption (if a social welfare institution places out a child for adoption, then the identity credential of the person-in-charge of such an institution);
(2) duplicate copies of certificates certifying that the adoptees are abandoned infants or orphans, their residence certificates, growth reports and health examination certificates as well as photos of the adoptees.
The public notice issued by the civil affairs department of the people’s government of a province, an autonomous region or a municipality directly under the Central Government for ascertaining or looking for the biological parents of those abandoned infants or children shall be published in a local newspaper at the provincial level. Where the biological parents or other guardians of the abandoned infant or child do not come to claim him or her after 60 days as of the date of the publication of the public notice, such an abandoned infant or child shall be regarded as one whose biological parents cannot be ascertained or found.
Article 7 The Chinese adoption organization shall, after having examined the application for adoption and the relevant certificates submitted by the foreign adopter and by referring to the desire of the foreign adopter, select a suitable adoptee from among the adoptees who are recommended by the civil affairs department of the people’s government of a province, an autonomous region or a municipality directly under the Central Government and who meet the requirements stipulated in the Adoption Law, and shall, through the foreign government or a foreign adoption organization, send to the foreign adopter the information about the adoptee and the person placing out the child for adoption. Where the adoption is agreed by the foreign adopter, the Chinese adoption organization shall send him or her a notice of coming to China for adoption of a child, and simultaneously inform the relevant civil affairs department of the people’s government of a province, an autonomous region or a municipality directly under the Central Government to send the person placing out the child for adoption a notice that consent has already been given to the adoption of the adoptee.
Article 8 Where foreigners come to China to adopt children, they shall come to China in person to go through the registration formalities. Where a foreign couple adopt a child in concert, they shall come in concert to China to go through the adoption formalities; where one party of them cannot come to China for some reasons, the other party shall be delegated in writing, and the power of attorney shall be notarized and authenticated by the country where they reside.
Article 9 A foreigner who comes to China to adopt a child shall conclude a written adoption agreement with the person placing out the child for adoption. The agreement shall be in three copies, the adopter and the person placing out the child for adoption shall keep one copy each, and the adoption registration organ shall keep one copy when handling the adoption registration formalities.
After the written agreement is concluded, the parties involved in the adoptive relationship shall register the adoption in concert with the civil affairs department of the people’s government of the province, autonomous region or municipality directly under the Central Government in the locality where the adoptee’s permanent residence is registered.
Article 10 The parties involved in the adoptive relationship shall, when registering adoption, fill out a registration application for adoption of children by foreigners in China and submit the adoption agreement, and shall respectively submit the relevant documents.
The adopters shall submit the following documents:
(1) the notice of coming to China for adoption of a child issued by the Chinese adoption organization;
(2) the identity credentials and photos of the adopters.
The person placing out a child for adoption shall submit the following documents:
(1) the notice that consent has already been given to the adoption of the adoptee issued by the civil affairs department of the people’s government of the province, autonomous region or municipality directly under the Central Government;
(2) the residence booklet and resident identity card of the person placing out the child for adoption (if a social welfare institution places out the child for adoption, then the identity credential of the persons-in-charge of such an institution) and photos of the adoptee.
Article 11 The adoption registration organ shall conduct examination within 7 days from the next date of the receipt of the registration application for adoption of children in China by foreigners and the relevant documents related to the adopter, the adoptee and the person placing out the child for adoption; where the requirements stipulated in Article 10 of these Measures are met, the adoption shall be registered for the parties, and an adoption registration certificate be issued. The adoptive relationship shall be established as of the date of registration.
The adoption registration organ shall inform the Chinese adoption organization of the result of the registration.
Article 12 Where, after the adoption has been registered, adoption notarization is required by all parties or any one party involved in the adoptive relationship, the adoption shall be notarized in a notary organ with the qualification of foreign-related notarization in the locality where the adoption is registered.
Article 13 Before the adoptee leaves China, the adopter shall, on the strength of the adoption registration certificate, go through the exit formalities for the adoptee with the public security organ in the locality where the adoption is registered.
Article 14 Foreigners who adopt children in China shall pay a registration fee to the registration organs. The standard for the registration fee shall be implemented in accordance with the relevant provisions of the State.
Chinese adoption organizations are non-profit-making public welfare institutions which provide service to foreign adopters and may charge service fees. The standard for charging service fees shall be implemented in accordance with the relevant provisions of the State.
For the purpose of rearing abandoned infants and children living in social welfare institutions, the State encourages foreign adopters and foreign adoption organizations to make donation to social welfare institutions. The social welfare institutions receiving donations must use all the donations to improve the nurturing conditions for the abandoned infants and children reared and may not misappropriate the donations for other purposes, and shall inform the donors of the use of the donations. The social welfare institutions receiving donations shall also subject themselves to the supervision of the relevant departments and make the use of the donations known to the public.
Article 15 The activities of Chinese adoption organizations shall be subject to the supervision of the civil affairs department of the State Council.
Article 16 These Measures shall take effect as of the date of promulgation. The Implementation Measures on the Adoption of Children by Foreigners in the People’s Republic of China, approved by the State Council on November 3, 1993 and promulgated by the Ministry of Justice and the Ministry of Civil Affairs on November 10, 1993, shall be repealed simultaneously.
Pred meseci smo za mesec dni obiskali Kitajsko. Pri ogledih znamenitosti smo stalno srečevali zanimivo druščino: italjanski starši z kitajskimi otroci – res same punčke. Oni imajo lahko le enega otroka, za drugega že morajo državi plačati precej denarja. Ker ne zmorejo jih nekje pustijo, če je punčka se ji odpovejo in poskusijo, če bo naslednjilč fant. Tako mi je razložila študentka, ki je znala angleško. Otroci so pa pravi angelčki – in gotovo jih tu čaka veliko lepše življenje in bolj čist zrak.
Torej povezave so močne, tudi angleške pare sem srečala- dva para, pa vsak po tri kitajke. Krasno!
S Kitajske posvajajo tudi starši iz mnogih dežel EU. Za Italjane nisem vedela, vem pa za Špance, Angleže, Švede, Fince, Nizozemce in Francoze. Zato ni nobenega razloga da tudi Slovenija ne bi mogla vzpostaviti programa. Potrebe po starših so velike, ameriški in EU starši posvojijo na leto verjetno okrog 10.000 deklic, večinoma starih pod 12 mesecev ali malo več. Veliko je tudi večjih čakajočih otrok, tam je postopek skrajšan.
Srečno vsem!
Mamica dveh punck
v zadnjem času posvojitve iz tujine, predvsem iz bolj eksotičnih dežel postajajo pravi trend, češ: joj pa so tko luštne, te majcene kitajčice, te njihove luštne očke… v slovenskih sirotišnicah pa otroci, sicer malce starejši, a brez družin. predvsem premožnejši pari torej “kupujejo” otroke kot majhne kužke in se potem hvalijo kako lepega, krasnega dojenčka imajo, res prava tržnica!