Odgovarjajo: Nina Pirnat, dr.med, specialistka epidemiologije

HPV in cepljenje

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Tudi sam sem imel namen cepiti hči proti HPV, ampak, ko človek prebere tole, se malo zamisli!

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... ccine.aspx

Bil je na to temo objavljen tudi članek v Nedeljskem Dnevniku 20.2.2011. Žal je tu omejitev 1Mb pripenjanja datotek.

Kaj menite ostali, predvsem strokovnjaki na tem forumu?

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Spoštovani, prispevki kontroverznega dr. Merkole so javnosti dobro znani in vedno burijo duhove in domišljijo. Je pravi mojster konstruktov,. "For starters, the HPV vaccine Gardasil, which is being vigorously pushed on unsuspecting young girls and women to theoretically guard against cervical cancer still has never been proven to actually prevent cancer. On the contrary, evidence suggests that under certain circumstances the vaccine increases your risk of precancerous lesions by nearly 45 percent, and an ever increasing number of girls are being seriously injured by this unnecessary vaccine." Tole, npr. je povsem iz trte zvito.
Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.
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Nina P je napisal/a:
Spoštovana gospa tole pravite, da je iz trte zvito? Z ostalim napisanim (katerega del dodajam spodaj) se pa strinjate (ali morda sploh niste prebrali)? Pa, da ne bo nesporazuma tudi z vašo "trto" se ne strinjam. Res hud argument "iz trte zvito" in naj ne sprašujemo zakaj? Gospod trdi, da ni bilo nikoli dokazano, da cepivo preprečuje raka. Nam vi lahko predočite, te dokaze, če trdite, da obstajajo?

Zagovarjate tudi lansko cepivo za svinjsko gripo?

Posledica internetne osveščenosti je, da je bilo cepljenja zelo malo in se je farmacevtom načrt sfižil in tudi letos je cepljenja za gripo 40% manj in posledica? Število smrtnih žrtev kot posledica gripe se je povsod po svetu precej zmanjšalo (predvidevam, da vsaj podatke za Slovenijo imate). In kaj nam ob tem zdrava kmečka pamet pove? Manj ko se ljudje cepijo, manj je smrtnih žrtev in obratno. Ni potrebno, da je človrk genij, da iz tega razbere kako učinkovita so cepiva in komu koristijo,

Ob tem je tudi že dolgo znano dejstvo, da cepiva niso stvar zdravja ampak stvar (finančnih) kalkulacij.

Vi se verjetno tudi strinjate, da je kemoterapija najbolša izbira gledezdravljenja raka kajne?
Da se ubija zdrave celice skupaj z rakastimi ker medicina kao ne zna ločiti enih od drugih.
Za potrebe "fotografiranja" pa zna najti samo rakave celice.

Naj verjame kdor hoče.

Sledi prej omenjen tekst, ki me prepriča precej bolj kot vaša trta.


Gardasil Can INCREASE Your Risk of Precancerous Lesions, or Worse

However, a growing number of health professionals, including the director of gynecology at a New York hospital, not only are backing off giving it to their female patients, but are choosing not to give it to their own daughters.
And based on information straight from the horse's mouth – Merck, the manufacturer of Gardasil – I can clearly say that these doctors are doing the responsible thing.
As the Examiner points out, information from Merck presented to the FDA prior to approval states that "if you have been exposed to HPV 16 or 18 prior to injection and take the vaccine, you increase your risk of precancerous lesions, or worse, by 44.6%"

The Examiner continues:
"Now, Merck's research is indicating that Gardasil may also 'provide cross-protection' against other strains of HPV that are closely related to HPV 16 and 18. (see this article on Medpage Today)
This means prior exposure to these additional strains may pose an increased risk for cervical cancer also, if combined with vaccination.
No one appears to be concerned with the increased risk of vaccination combined with prior exposure, as long as you take the vaccine. You will see no advertisements indicating the possibility of increased risk of the very cancer this vaccine is supposed to help you avoid."
This could indeed be a potential hazard that no one is talking about, let alone making parents fully aware of before vaccinating their daughters.

What Do Experts Know that You Don't?

The comments that New York physician Dr. Jacques Moritz made to ABC News in August last year were almost exactly the same thoughts that I've been sharing with you from the start, since this vaccine was introduced.
As director of gynecology at St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital, Dr. Moritz is in a position to know what he's talking about – and what he told ABC News is that this vaccine's safety data concerns him so much that he's neither offering it to his patients, nor giving it to his 11-year-old daughter.
Dr. Moritz's comments followed a disturbing article and editorial published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, which questioned whether the potential benefits of this vaccine outweighed the side effects.
He wasn't alone in his concerns: ABC News' chief medical officer, Dr. Timothy Johnson, also said that this vaccine deserved scrutiny, and he encouraged parents to read the Journal article and editorial themselves, before vaccinating their daughters.
Of course, the CDC and FDA were quick with rebuttals supporting the vaccine's safety. Curiously, they used the same safety data and adverse events the Journal quoted – from syncope (fainting) to Guillain-Barre syndrome to deaths – to "prove" their point.
And that just might leave you with more questions than answers, such as, is there something that these health professionals know that you don't?
There are a number of facts about this vaccine you need to know before you head to the pediatrician for the recommended shots. Because an INCREASED risk of cervical cancer is by no means the only risk you agree to if you consent to give this vaccine to your child.

To help you decide, here is a 10-point list of facts about HPV and the HPV vaccine:

1. The vaccines don't work if you have already been exposed to the HPVs against which they protect

Health officials know this – in fact, both HPV vaccine manufacturers say this in their prescribing inserts for physicians (Merck'sGardasil here, and GlaxoSmithKline's Cervarix here).
That's why the CDC recommends that children get the vaccine before they become sexually active. The only thing is, according to the most recent national Youth Behavior Risk Survey, children are having sex at an earlier and earlier age, meaning that their chances of having acquired an HPV before they get the vaccine is becoming greater and greater.
As discussed above, not only will the vaccine not work, but you increase your chances, by nearly 45 percent, of getting the very cancer you're trying to avoid if you've already been exposed to certain types of HPV!
Another thing they're not telling you is that, although intercourse is the most common way to get HPV, it's not the ONLY way. The truth is, HPV is transmitted skin-to-skin, and can be transmitted from just "fooling around," or even, in rare instances, from mother to baby at birth, or you can infect yourself by touching something contaminated with the virus and then touching yourself!
But what health providers tell you is to give your child the vaccine anyway, because the possibility of his or her being positive for all four HPVs (or both, in the case of Cervarix, which protects against only two) is low, and at least they will be protected against the HPVs they haven't been exposed to.
But does that make sense?
Why would you risk giving your child a vaccine that has proven, dangerous safety issues (see No. 7 below), if you don't know whether it's going to work, or worse – increase your child's chances of cancer?

2. This is NOT a cancer vaccine, no matter what you see or hear to the contrary

This vaccine protects against two viruses that can lead to cell abnormalities that in some instances can cause cervical cancer, if the abnormalities are not treated.
Although studies are beginning to show that the vaccine can help prevent vaccine-relevant HPVs from developing in someone who has never been exposed to them, there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that it prevents cancer of any sort. And that is something that a lead researcher Diane Harper, who helped create both these vaccines, has been warning from the start.

3. Just because your child gets the HPV vaccine doesn't necessarily mean he or she is protected from genital warts or cancer

There are more than 100 HPVs, 30 of which are known to cause cancer or genital warts. Since Gardasil and Cervarix only protect against two cancer-causing HPVs and two wart-causing HPVs, that means you can still get cervical cancer or genital warts from the other HPVs.
Also, according to Dr. Diane Harper, data show that Gardasil only protects against genital warts for a little over two years.

4. Getting the vaccine does not guarantee life-long immunity, or even 10 years of immunity

Nobody knows how long these vaccines work, according to Dr. Harper. And, as I mentioned in Point No. 3, Gardasil so far has shown to protect for warts only a little over two years. It shows efficacy for just one HPV – HPV 16 – for not quite eight years.
Dr. Harper also has stressed in numerous interviews that it can take 10 to 20 years for cervical cancer to develop – meaning that, if the vaccine wears off, young girls who get it today won't be protected at the time they need it most.

5. The reason boys are getting vaccinated is because the majority of girls aren't

Because the incidence of cervical cancer is so low in the US, studies show that for this vaccine to be cost-effective, a majority of 11- and 12-year-old girls have to be vaccinated.
But that hasn't happened. The fact is, only about 34 percent of US girls have completed all three shots – meaning that in order to make it cost-effective, boys have to be added into the picture, so they can theoretically confer "herd" protection to the girls.
Another startling fact is, the only real way for it to be cost-effective for girls is if they cut back on getting Pap smears – the clinical test credited for making cervical cancer so low in this country – from every year to no more than every three years.
Is it more than coincidence, then, that last year the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists announced that young girls and teens won't need annual Pap tests when they're older?
Why would they do this when it's been proven that the reason cervical cancer is so low in the US and other developed nations is because the rate of Pap testing is so high?
Obviously, the Pap test is a tool that's working: Many studies show that most cervical cancers in the developed world occur in women who have not had a Pap test in the past 5 years, or who have never had one at all.
So why would health officials want to "fix" something that's not broken – unless they're trying to steer you toward a vaccine that is mostly needed in Third World countries, but that they need you to help pay for? (See No. 10 below.)

6. Your insurance may not cover your son's HPV vaccination

It's common knowledge that insurance companies usually don't pay for a vaccine until the ACIP recommends it. Since Gardasil has only been approved as an option, some insurance companies will use that to opt-out of paying for it. That's why the Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine is now pushing for ACIP to change its approval to a recommendation.

7. Reports of adverse reactions are already coming in to the national Vaccine Adverse Events
Reporting System (VAERS) for boys who have gotten the HPV vaccine

The reactions –fainting, seizures, muscle weakness and paralysis – are similar to what the girls are reporting. A check with the CDC's Vaccine Adverse Reporting System (VAERS) shows that
allergic and anaphylactic-type reactions are also occurring in boys as well as girls.
And, as I reported in an earlier article, as of March 2010, there were already 17,600 reports of adverse reactions with this vaccine, and among them 59 deaths – 18 of which were in girls under age 17.

8. Some health professionals fear that it's possible that the HPV vaccine could end up causing cervical cancer rates to go UP, not down, in developed countries.

Dr. Harper herself has expressed this worry many times. In an interview with the Huffington Post, she said that if the vaccine doesn't last at least 15 years, the young people that are vaccinated will not be protected when they need it most.
Also, if some girls mistakenly believe the vaccine is all they need, and quit getting Pap smears, the cervical cancer rate will go up, if from nothing else, from the HPVs the vaccine doesn't cover, Dr. Harper said. This has already been shown in Finland, she said.
Another concern is that, like other vaccines such as the pneumococcal, the HPV vaccine may encourage viruses not covered by the vaccine to become more virulent, and therefore more apt to cause cervical cancer than if no vaccine were given at all.

9. If your child is harmed by this vaccine, the vaccine companies are not liable, even if by some miracle you can prove the vaccine caused the harm

The National Vaccine Information Center is an excellent resource for this topic. The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) was created by Congress as a "no-fault" way to give parents an opportunity to recover monetary damages if they believe their child has been injured by a vaccine.
But the process is long and involved, and can take years to prove, as thousands of parents already know.
Besides, if your child gets cancer many years down the road, how likely do you think it would it be that their cancer would be linked to this vaccine?

10. The reason this vaccine is on the immunization list in the US probably has more to do with making sure it's available in countries with high rates of cervical cancer and other HPV-related diseases, than it has to do with protecting your children from cancer or genital warts
In the US, cervical cancer affects about 11,000 women every year, and kills about 3,800. The

rate is so low that it isn't even in the top 10 cancers that kill women in the US.
But as this 2008 Human Papillomavirus Background Paper published by the World Health Organization points out, it is the leading cause of cancer among women in Third World (developing) countries, and the second leading cancer in women worldwide.
About 80 percent of cervical cancer occurs in developing countries, and those countries are desperate to get this vaccine. The only thing is, they can't afford it, so they must rely on developed, "rich" nations to help them pay for the vaccines, and for vaccine companies to either drop the price to a fraction of its cost or donate them.
And how do they do that?
By rich countries purchasing enough vaccines, and donating enough money toward the effort to make it cost-effective to manufacture them for poor countries.

Facts You Need to Know about HPV Infection and Protection

If these points seem distressing, the good news is there are far safer, healthier ways to avoid HPV, which I'll review below.
But first, it's important to know a few simple facts about HPV so you know what you're actually dealing with, because "HPV infection" does NOT equal cervical cancer:
In more than 70 percent of cases, HPV clears up on its own within a few weeks or months. In over 90 percent of cases, it's gone within two years, causing no symptoms or disease.
Only about 26 percent of girls and women ages 14 to 59 have any strain at all of HPV; and
Only 2 percent have strains 16 or 18 – the two that Gardasil and Cervarix protect against – meaning this vaccine is completely unnecessary because HPV infection very rarely leads to cancer.
Women whose partners wore condoms during vaginal intercourse are 70 percent less likely to become infected with HPV. That's a FAR greater level of protection than you can get from this vaccine!

A Healthy Way to Avoid HPV

HPV is exacerbated by:
Early sexual activity
Having multiple sex partners
So, teaching your child about making healthy choices and practicing safe sex is a start toward avoiding HPV. As I just mentioned, the simple act of using condoms reduces your chances of acquiring any type of HPV infection by 70 percent.
Additionally, as with all diseases, a low immune system and poor nutrition can also make you more susceptible to infection such as HPV.
I've written many times on how to supercharge your immune system as an alternative to immunizations, but I can't stress it enough: Proper diet, exercise, good hygiene, staying well rested, and hand-washing are excellent ways to begin the road to a long, healthy life, no matter what your age.
I also advocate getting plenty of the most natural health-booster of all, something that's free from Mother Nature – sunshine. Or, when you can't be out in the sun, supplements of Vitamin D, and particularly Vitamin D3, can keep your immune levels up.
For even more ideas on how you and your entire family can get healthy, and stay healthy, my book, Take Control of Your Health, is jam-packed with step-by-step guides for optimizing your health and avoiding disease of all kinds.
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Spoštovani, orum ni namenjen dolgemu polemiziranju in pojasnjevanju, zato sem Nacetu komentirala le del, ki se nanaša na HPV, Rezultati ogromno študij so pokazali, da se po cepljenju s cepivom proti HPV zmanjša število prekanceroz, karcinoma in situ in raka materničnega vratu v cepljenih skupinah napram necepljenim. Študije so pokazale tudi delno navzkrižno imunost naprav sevom HPM, ki niso vključeni v cepivo. Zadnje avstralske študije so pokazale izjemen padec genitalnih bradavic v cepljeni populaciji, cepivo HPV so pravkar registrirali tudi v namene preprečevanja anogenitalnih karcinomov, ... Študije so dostopne vsakemu na PubMedu, dnevno se objavljajo nove, ki tudi poročajo o trajanju in trajnosti zaščite.

Povsem jasno je, da bo preprečevanje okužb z virusom HPV in posledično karcinoma materničnega vratu ali pa anogenitalnih bradavic, če gre za cepivo, ki vključuje tudi bradavični komponenti, uspešnejše, če in ko bosta cepljena ova spola, kar že danes izvrstno prikazujejo avstralske študije, kjer cepijo oba spola.

Vsakemu medicinsko vsaj malo pismenemu pa je najbrž tudi jasno, da je cepljenje uspešno takrat, ko ga izvedemo PRED OKUŽBO, in ne šele po (čeprav je ravno pri cepivu proti HPV zaradi intenzivne navzkrižne imunosti v preskušanju cel kup t.i. "terapevtskih" cepiv, ki bi jih uporabljali tudi po okužbi.

Ob vašem razmišljanju, če se strinjam, da je kemoterapija najboljša izbira za zdravljenje raka, vam bom takole odgovorila: večinoma je ta trenutek edina izbira, če hoče človek preživeti.
Pojdite si ogledat otroke in starše, npr. z akutnimi levkemijami, pa spremljajte rezultate kemoterapij.
Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.
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vidim da se je tukaj vnela napeta debata...no ne glede na cepiva, teorije zarote, dobičke farmacevtskih družb ipd. me zanima ali bi vi priporočali cepljenje ženske pri 28 letih? Videla sem, da ste sicer nekaj o tem napisali, da je sicer cepiti pametno pred okužbo in ne toliko po...jaz sicer ne vem, če sem okužena ali ne...ali bi mi predlagali, da se najprej testiram za HPV in se šele na podlagi tega odločim za cepljenje? Hvala že v naprej za odgovor...en lep pozdrav.
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Da, 28-letni ženski, ki nima znakov okužbe (oz. ima normalen rezultat brisa), in ima namen biti (oz. je) spolno aktivna vsekakor priporočam cepljenje (brez ev. testiranja). Lep pozdrav!
Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.
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Hvala za hiter odgovor. Moji brisi so bili vedno ok (vsako leto), tako da potem lahko sklepam, CEPITI SE JE PAMETNO. :)
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Zanima me, kje in kako se lahko cepim, potrebujem napotnico ipd.?
Stara sem 19 let in še nisem imela spolnega odnosa z moškimi.
Hvala za odgovor!
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Spoštovani, cepite se lahko samoplačiniško; prav gotovo na enem izmed področnih Zavodov za zdravstveno varstvo, morda pa tudi pri izbranem ginekologu (vsi ginekologi ne cepijo). Lep pozdrav!
Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.
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zakaj smo se odločili za nacionalni program cepljenj v 6 r, če bi se pa lahko pri 16tih ali 18tih letih???? Glede na to, da imajo starši, ki se z otroci resno pogovarjajo o nevarnostih spolnosti več možnosti, da njihovi otroci ne zapadejo v tvegano vedenje na tem področju bi bil lahko kasnejši program cepljenja dober argument za manj tvegano spolno vedenje mladostnikov, mar ne?

Glede na vse grozljivosti povezane z farmacevtskimi družbami imamo ljudje precej upravičene dvome, mar ne? Največji problem nacionalne institucije pa se mi zdi v tem, da celo pri nas, kjer nimamo sedežev velikih farmacevtskih družb in bi lahko razmišljali v smislu resničnih prednosti za prebivalstvo odgovorni na institucijah kot ovce in trobila zagovarjajo stališča farmacevtov. Žalostno! (ali pa nas imajo tuji farmacevti za fine poligone preskušanja?????)

Pričakovala bi, da po obsežnem izobraževanju premorejo kanček zdrave kmečke pameti in znajo vrednotiti ene in druge analize in raziskave in ob najmanjšem dvomu stopiti na bremzo!

Ne vem zakaj zastonjskega - nacionalnega cepiva ne morejo prejeti ženske vseh starosti oz. vsaj do polnoletnosti ali do 25 leta????? Marsikaktera slovenska 10-letnica bi se po 8h ali 15h letih dodatnih "testiranj" tega cepiva na drugih nacijah lažje sama odločala o prednostih, nevarnostih ter tveganjih tovrstnega cepljenja.

Zaradi primerov hudih reakcj v neposredni bližini na redna cepljenja (in posledic le-teh) sem namreč precej skeptična glede varnosti in tudi glede učinkov rednih cepljenj. Ali so res potrebna????????? Argumenti precepljenosti in procentov, ki služijo institucijam za posiljevanje ljudi s cepljenji mi je resnično mimo!

Da nisem totalna zblojena nasprotnica lahko priznam pa, da smo se prostovoljno, po zelo zelo zelo temeljitem premisleku, cepili proti klopnemu meningoencefalitisu, saj ocenjujem, da je stanje okuženosti klopov na področju kjer živimo tako alarmantno, da se ne želimo izpostavljati tveganju te bolezni ker se pač ne želimo odpovedati gibanju na svežem zraku, v gozdu,udeležbe otrok pri tabornikih, skavtih, planincih in ostalih aktivnostih v naravi, ki so drugače blagodejne za zdravje.
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Spoštovani, za rutinske nacionalne programe cepljenja proti HPV, ki ji krijejo, ali vsaj sofinancirajo zdravstvene blagajne ali njihovi analogi, vse države izvajajo pri kohortah pred začetkom spolne aktivnosti in to samo pri deklicah ali pri obeh spolih. Kaj ste hoteli povedat s trditvijo, da bilo kasnejše cepljenje argument za manj tvegano vedenje otrok, ne vem. Pričetek spolne aktivnosti se pomika v vse bolj zgodnja leta, že leta 2004 je bilo spolno aktivnih 23 % 15-letnikov, redno spolno aktivnih 50% 17-letnikov, uvrščamo se v zgodnjo tretino držav s zgodnjim pričetkom spolne aktivnosti. Če želimo biti s programom cepljenja uspešni, ga moramo definitivno postaviti v kohorto pred začetkom spolne aktivnosti. Idealno bi bilo vsaki ženski, ki še ni bila spolno aktivna, oz. ne kaže znakov okužbe s HPV, zagotoviti cepljenje proti HPV, a denarja je vedno pre(malo) in se ga potem nameni na način in po izračunu, po katerem pričakujemo najboljši izplen.
Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.
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Draga moja gospa, pa vi ste eklatantni primer zblojenosti zdravstvenega sistema, ki je slepo za vse argumente samo svoje bebave procente znate računat!!!! A vi sploh razumete, da se da tvegano in sploh prezgodnje spolono vedenje mladih preprečevati z ustreznim osveščanjem in medijskimi kampanijami (ki so trenutno seveda zgrajene v to, da začnejo mladi čimprej sexat - poglejte si vendar sosednje forume kako 20, 25 letnice sprašujejo kaj je z njimi narobe in kako naj se znebijo svoje nedolžnosti haloooo????? ). Še najmanj pa ste sposobni razumet kako kvarno lahko cepljenje vpliva na zdravje in žviljenje posameznika! Če obstaja najmanjši dvom o učinkovitosti in o kvarnih učinkih bi bilo to potrebno temeljito, ponavljam TEMELJITO proučiti. Saj ko človek bere analize tega cepiva (kot seveda tudi vseh drugih) glede trenutnih učinkov je vse procentualno bla bla bla bp, samo zagotovila, da zadeva resnično deluje pa nobena od teh analiz ne daje nobenega! (medtem ko internetno dostopni viri neodvisnih - od farmacevtskih družb seveda - raziskav kažejo, da osnovni namen cepiva naj ne bi bil dosežen in da le-to celo ogroža zdravje; saj ne rečem,d a vse kar piše na internetu drži, vendar bi pričakovala korektne argumente o neškodljivosti le-tega za POSAMEZNIKA ne v bebavostih precepljenosti procenta populacije - ma saj to je genocidno početje!!!!!)

Moram priznati, da me je vaš arogantni odziv na moj prispevek popolnoma raz****il, ker samo kaže na omejenost kvazi strokovnjakov, ki delate na IVZ in sem postala zelo zelo zelo zaskrbljena za svoje in svojih otrok zdravje, če nam takšni ljudje kot ste vi diktirate kako bomo lahko ostali zdravi. Jojmene!
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Spoštovani, spustite ploho žaljivk na osnovi???, navedete povsem neresnične trditve, citiram, "raziskav kažejo, da osnovni namen cepiva naj ne bi bil dosežen in da le-to celo ogroža zdravje;" konec citata in nato meni očitate arogantnost.
Očitno sporočila ne razumete in tudi ne razumete, čemu je z nekaterimi preventivnimi ukrepi treba pričeti prej, preden tveganje sploh nastane, pa tudi tega ne, da je za doseganje ciljev (preprečevanja spolno prenosljivih okužb) treba izvajati več vzporednoh akcij, vključno s kampanijami za zdravo/varno spolnost. Dejstva pa so, kot sem napisala, mladi (in stari) se veliko ukvarjajo s spolnostjo (kar ste posredno ugotovili celo sami, ko ste navajali svoje dojemanje o medijskih kampanijah o spolnosti), mladi so zelo zgodaj spolno aktivni in ob eksperimentiranju celo najbolj neprevidni.
Debata na takem nivoju, žal, ne vodi nikamor.
Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.
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na podlagi zgornje debate in po prebranem članku, ki ga je pripela bralka foruma, me zanima, na kakšni osnovi dotični ameriški zdravnik tako kritizira cepljenje, če so študije dokazale učinkovitost?

Sama sem zagovornica cepljenja proti HPV in sem se pred kratkim tudi cepila (pri starosti 28 let), me pa zanima, kako dolgo deluje dvovalentno cepivo Cervarix, oz. ali je potrebno cepljenje z leti ponavljati?

Najlepša hvala za odgovor,

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Spoštovana Elliie, študij učinkovitosti ne upošteva. Zaščita po cepljenju s cercerixu je dolgotrajna, če pa bo kdaj potrebna revakcinacija, bodo pokazale študije (stalno spremljanje stanja protiteles in pojavljanja HPV okužb pri cepljeni populaciji).
Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.
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Hvala za odgovor.

Bi pa rada pokomentirala se pisanje bralke s psevdonimom zanimiva debata.

1) Ko ze imate toliko za povedati o grozljivosti farmacevtske industrije, ki dela na prebivalstvu 'poskuse' , predvidevam, da ne jemljete antibiotikov, ko zbolite vi in vasi otroci? In ce bi bognedaj zboleli za rakom se seveda nikakor ne bi posluzili kemoterapije? Ko vas boli glava ne vzamete analgetika? Farmacevtska industrija je tista, ki vam to omogoca.

2) Namigujete na to, da naj bi imelo zgodnje ali pozno cepljenje nekaksno korelacijo s spolnim vedenjem mladostnikov. Oprostite, toda ne morem se vzdrzati, kje pa zivite? Mislim, da nikomur, ki tole bere ni cisto jasno, kam merite s temi komentarji.

3) Vase izrazanje in stopnja kulture je grozljiva. Ne pa farmacevtska industrija.

Pozdrav, Ellie
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Draga Ellie,

sem govorila v vmesnem času z mnogimi zdravniki, tudi starši odraščajočih deklet, z nekaterimi uspešnimi in znanimi slovenskimi ginekologinjami in .... vsi po vrsti so ravno do tegale cepljenja zelo skeptični in nihče ni dal svojih hčera cepiti. Le zakaj????? (ne zaupajo več farmacevtski industriji!) Tudi ginekologinje menijo, da je cepljenje 11letnic prezgodnje in da s tem otrokom le damo licence za neodgovoren sex... Je pa katastrofa, da zdravstveni sistem podpira farmacevtsko industrijo in financira ceplenja, ginekološke preglede z odvszemom brisa pa je zreduciral na 3 leta!!! Katastrofa! Itak je težko pridet do ginekologa kadarkoli imaš težave - dostopnost zdravstva pa taka!

Kadar me boli glava se vležem in si odpočijem, redko jamljem analgetike. Tudi vsem ostalim zdravilom se nadvse izogibam, razen v najnujnejših primerih (a niso že ugotovili, da se je število hudih in novih obolenj ravno zaradi nerazsodnega predpisovanja antibiotikov razbohotilo čez vse meje!!!). Pred leti smo imeli v družini primer alergije in sem se dobro podučila o tem kaj vse škoduje sodobnemu človeku, farmacija, agronomija in "sodobna" prehrambeno-predelovalna industrija so tiste, ki ustvarjajo opustošenje človeka.

In ja gospodična, arogantnost ljudi na IVZ je neizmerna! On samo gledajo na procente, ne briga pa jih prav nič zdravstveno stanje populacije. Dosti bolj realistična in normalna mnenja o ceplenju npr. pridobiš na spletu društva Kala in podobno. Meni pa še največ pove ravnanje ginekologov in zdravnikov glede lastnih otrok v tem primeru.
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Spoštovani, ko smo že pri zdravnikih in cepljenju, samo toliko: moji 2 hčeri sta bili proti HPV cepljeni še samoplačniško, ker druge možnosti še ni bilo.
Izvaja, da z zgodnjim cepljenjem damo otrokom licence za neodgovorni seks, je pa tako neodgovorna, da spada na strokovno razsodišče.
Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.
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Spoštovana ga. Nina P, nam lahko poveste, ali ste kakorkoli finančno povezani s proizvajalci cepiv?
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Nina Pirnat, dr.med., spec.epid.


Nina Pirnat , dr.med, specialistka epidemiologije
Nina P